03/22/2001 03:30 PM House L&C
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
March 22, 2001
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair
Representative Kevin Meyer
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative Joe Hayes
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 80
"An Act relating to the hours during which sale of alcohol and
entry on licensed premises is allowed; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 80(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 132
"An Act relating to the possession or distribution of alcohol in
a local option area; requiring liquor license applicants to
submit fingerprints for the purpose of conducting a criminal
history background check, and relating to the use of criminal
justice information by the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board;
providing for a review of alcohol server education courses by
the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board every two years; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 132(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 80
SHORT TITLE:LEGAL HOURS FOR SALE OF ALCOHOL
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)OGAN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/19/01 0129 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
01/19/01 0129 (H) L&C, FIN
03/14/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
03/14/01 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(L&C)
03/22/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 132
SHORT TITLE:LIQUOR LICENSE APPLICANT CHECK/TRAINING
SPONSOR(S): JUDICIARY BY REQUEST
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/01 0365 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/01 0365 (H) L&C, JUD, FIN
03/16/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
03/16/01 (H) Heard & Held
03/16/01 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
03/22/01 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 108
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 80.
HOWARD SCAMAN, Secretary
Council on Alcohol Abuse and Public Safety-Alaska, Inc. (CAAPS)
P.O. Box 23007
Juneau, Alaska 99802
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 80.
PAM WATTS, Executive Director
Advisory Board on Alcoholism and Drug Abuse
P.O. Box 110608
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 80.
MATT FELIX, Director
National Council on Alcoholism
211 4th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 80.
CINDY CASHEN, Representative
Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD)
211 4th Street 102
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information from MADD to the
committee.
ALIVA "STEVE" DUNNAGAN, Lieutenant
Division of Alaska State Troopers
Department of Public Safety
5700 East Tudor Road
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that HB 80 is a piece of the
puzzle that should be passed along with other alcohol-related
legislation.
GLENN BRADY, President
Silver Gulch Brewery
No address provided
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 80.
DEAN J. GUANELI, Chief Assistant Attorney General
Legal Services Section-Juneau
Criminal Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 113.
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
Department of Revenue
550 W 7th Avenue, Suite 540
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-3510
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 132.
BLAIR McCUNE, Deputy Director
Public Defender Agency
Department of Administration
900 West 5th Avenue, Street 200
Anchorage, Alaska 99501-2090
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 132.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 01-37, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR LISA MURKOWSKI called the House Labor and Commerce
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:20 p.m.
Representatives Murkowski, Kott, Rokeberg, Crawford, and Hayes
were present at the call to order. Representatives Halcro and
Meyer arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 80-LEGAL HOURS FOR SALE OF ALCOHOL
Number 0048
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the committee would hear HOUSE
BILL NO. 80, "An Act relating to the hours during which sale of
alcohol and entry on licensed premises is allowed; and providing
for an effective date." [Before the committee, adopted as a work
draft on 3/14/01, was a proposed committee substitute (CS), 22-
LS0290\C, Ford, 3/8/01.]
CHAIR MURKOWSKI explained that the committee had received a
stack of information regarding HB 80, along with correspondence
from Michael T. Lohman, President, M. Lohman Investment Inc.,
with over 2200 signatures opposing the legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor of
HB 80, recognized receipt of the additional signatures. He
added that the handout entitled "1998 Alaska Traffic Accidents"
from the Alaska Department of Transportation and Public
Facilities, October 1999, shows the accidents: starting about
10 p.m., there were 157 accidents; between 12 and 2 a.m., 181;
and between 2 and 4 a.m., 143. He said it is anecdotal evidence
but it points out that there is a problem later at night. If
anyone can tell him what good comes from drinking between 2 a.m.
and 5 a.m., other than tavern and bar owners making money, he
said he is "all ears."
Number 0385
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he has ridden with the troopers in his
district numerous times and has seen the driving while
intoxicated (DWIs) happen after 2 a.m. He said this bill is a
proactive rather than a reactive approach.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN remarked that the Matanuska-Susitna area
("valley") has been infamous for being the marijuana-growing
capital of the state, and now the valley has the "we stay open
until 5 a.m." attitude. In the state with the highest per-
capita consumption of alcohol, he said, it sends the message
that having the bars open late is condoned by the state.
Number 0601
HOWARD SCAMAN, Secretary, Council on Alcohol Abuse and Public
Safety-Alaska, Inc. (CAAPS), via teleconference, said he
represents the "old 2-10 coalition," the Anchorage bar hours
back in 1981. He said this bill should have passed 18 years
ago, but the ball was dropped. He said it is tragic that this
has gone on for so long, and Representative Ogan is right in
saying that there is no reason to have drinking after 2 a.m. He
explained that this bill would discourage excessive drinking.
MR. SCAMAN added that the Council on Alcohol Abuse and Public
Safety is officially on record in support of HB 80.
Number 0700
PAM WATTS, Executive Director, Advisory Board on Alcoholism and
Drug Abuse, asked the committee to pass HB 80. She said the
board believes that current state law that disallows bar owners
to sell alcohol between 5 a.m. and 8 a.m. daily contributes to
the likelihood of drunk driving between communities with
differing hours of operation. A number of communities, she
explained, have reduced hours of liquor sales and set 2 a.m. as
a closing time. Some residents of these communities who live
near areas with less restrictive hours drive to nearby
communities to continue drinking until closure, and then drive
home, thus posing serious potential danger to other drivers.
MS. WATTS pointed out a recent incident in which two intoxicated
drivers, one coming from the Anchorage area and one from Mat-Su,
actually crashed into one another.
Number 0817
MS. WATTS stated that the advisory board believes by reducing
access to alcohol during the early morning hours, the incidence
of DWIs can be reduced; this would make the roadways safer for
all who must drive during these hours. She said [the advisory
board] believes that the high rate of alcohol-related injuries
and fatalities in Alaska warrants every effort to reduce the
number of alcohol-impaired drivers on the roads. She would like
to see this type of legislation passed into law because it is
one way to begin changing community norms. Alaska has the
reputation of being "freewheeling" and open, a hard-drinking
state. Until "we" stop focusing only on cleaning up the
"wreckage" from these incidents and start focusing on making
some changes in community norms, it will be difficult to make
positive headway.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked Ms. Watts what other communities she
is aware of where a person can drive from one community to
another with differing bar hours, other than Anchorage, Palmer,
and Kenai.
Number 0896
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded that the City of Seward closes its
bars at 2 a.m. and there is a bar on the other side of the city
limit that stays open until 5 a.m.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked if there were any other examples
across the state that could be cited, because according to the
information provided by Representative Ogan's office, many of
the communities have instituted reduced bar hours on their own.
He asked whether HB 80 is an attempt to pass legislation to deal
with a local issue in Anchorage or to make a statewide public
policy. He commented that it sounds like a local issue.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN remarked that it would be a statewide issue
because it is a statewide law; however, the legislature has to
make a policy call. Most of the major municipalities have done
it already, he explained, and due to the cities' being so far
apart from each other, it is not a problem. The legislature is
the local government for the unincorporated areas in the state,
and [the legislature] is saying that it is "our" policy call to
make.
Number 1040
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Ms. Watts what time of evening that
accident occurred.
MS. WATTS responded that it was 3 a.m.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if the people involved in the
collision were both from Anchorage.
Number 1137
MATT FELIX, Director, National Council on Alcoholism, answered
that the people coming from Anchorage had all been drinking in a
bar and were heading to the valley to drink more; this
information was reported to the state trooper. He clarified
that the other driver had been in a bar in the Wasilla area and
was also intoxicated. And when asked if the ABC Board had cited
the bar owners for serving more than the required limit by law,
he responded that he did not know.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN clarified that both drivers were charged
with assault on each other. He cited another case from last
winter in which a woman left a Wasilla bar, drove onto a lake,
and went through the ice at 5 or 6 a.m. There have been a lot
of cases, he remarked.
Number 1314
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said the last time this bill was heard the
focus was on local control. The City of Wasilla had sent a
resolution saying it opposes HB 80; he asked Representative
Ogan if he knew why. And he commented that sometimes the good
of the whole state needs to be taken into account.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said his friends in Wasilla are
conservatives and believe in local control; however, if the
policy isn't consistent statewide, there are problems.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO asked if Representative Ogan had seen the
fax from Joan Diamond, Injury Prevention Specialist, Division of
Public Health, Department of Health and Social Services, dated
March 21, 2001. He referred to a chart showing the number of
fatal alcohol-related crashes between 12 and 6 a.m.; he pointed
out that 45.4 percent happen during this time period.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that one should also factor in that
bars in Anchorage close much earlier now.
Number 1371
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER said [the Anchorage Assembly] considered
changing the bar hours from 3 a.m. on weekends to an earlier
time; however, even going from 5 to 3 a.m., [Anchorage] had a
rash of after-hours clubs opening up, and there is no control of
them. He said [after-hours clubs] are hard to bust because they
have secret codes [to get in] and so forth. He asked
Representative Ogan if there is concern that more after-hours
clubs could open.
Number 1431
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that it is a possibility, although
he didn't know how much concern there was.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER commented that during his days on the
Anchorage Assembly a balance was reached by having the bars
close at 2 a.m. during the week and 3 a.m. on the weekends.
[The situation] was bad when Anchorage's bars were open until 5
a.m., he said.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said this would mitigate it somewhat;
however, there are always people who, if they want to get drunk,
will have the booze that was purchased at a package store
earlier. Nonetheless, this would probably cut down on a lot of
it and send a message that Alaska isn't the "party state"
anymore. The young people are probably the most susceptible to
that attitude and mentality, he remarked.
Number 1569
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER pointed out that the other thing discussed
[by the Anchorage Assembly] was how early the 8 a.m. bar opening
time was. In Anchorage, he said, it is 10 a.m., and he asked if
that would be an acceptable amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he wasn't aware that it was
different and deferred the decision to the committee. He added
that he didn't think there was much business in bars at 8 a.m.
Number 1636
CINDY CASHEN, Representative, Mothers Against Drunk Driving
(MADD), stated that she is a victim of drunk driving. On April
19 [2000] a drunk driver in the Anchorage area killed her
father. She had some information from Charley Fannon, Chief of
Police, Wasilla.
MS. CASHEN explained that the information from the City of
Wasilla shows people traveling between Anchorage and Wasilla;
those are the numbers within the municipality of Wasilla, she
pointed out, referring to the committee's handout.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out that the handout shows the
second-highest arrest total comes from Anchorage, and he asked
if those are arrests made by the Wasilla Police Department.
MS. CASHEN answered affirmatively.
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO followed up by asking if these DWI
incidents are as a result of people traveling back and forth.
MS. CASHEN again answered affirmatively.
Number 1733
MR. FELIX commented on the odds of two intoxicated people
running into one another. The odds would be [astronomically
high], he said, and it takes 201 times of driving drunk for a
person to get his or her first DWI. He pointed out that in the
Anchorage Daily News today there was an article about a woman
sentenced for fatally injuring another woman early in the
morning in Anchorage, and both were intoxicated. The woman
received a minimal sentence for creating a fatality because both
occupants had been intoxicated.
MR. FELIX said this bill will set a standard in the state, one
that has been needed since statehood: that [Alaska] will not
put up with the "carnage" and the outrageous cost ensued by
alcohol abuse and alcoholism in the state, and paying $41,000 to
keep a person in prison, 60 percent of whom are there for
alcohol-related felonies. He encouraged the committee to move
the bill forward. Regarding the issue of local control, he said
the state is the governing authority in unincorporated areas to
set a standard.
Number 1856
MR. FELIX commented that if nothing else, the standard for the
state would have been set; [the law] will hold the existing
municipalities to that standard, and keep them from reversing
it. He said a local issue has local politics, and if [the
legislature] sets a standard, local municipalities will see how
the state feels about issue.
ALVIA "STEVE" DUNNAGAN, Lieutenant, Division of Alaska State
Troopers, Department of Public Safety, via teleconference, said
he would like to give the committee some firsthand knowledge.
He was stationed in Palmer and arrested many drunk drivers from
Anchorage who were using the bars in Palmer and Wasilla after
those in Anchorage closed. He said [troopers] used to wait for
them to come across the flats after 2 a.m., and when there was a
visible traffic increase. This bill, he said, would make bar
closure hours consistent across the state and would go a long
way to help reduce the number of traffic accidents and DWIs on
the highways.
Number 1924
LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN said four or five years ago, Fairbanks
drafted an ordinance and began closing the bars earlier than the
state law; and there was a decrease in the number of drunk
drivers being arrested. On the other hand, people would leave
the Fairbanks city limit and travel to bars outside the borough
that were still open until 5 a.m., so there were still some
serious accidents that occurred at 4, 5, and 6 a.m.
LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN reiterated that this would go a long way to
reducing those accidents. It is not a "magic pill" or an end to
all of the problems, he explained, but it is a piece of the
puzzle that should be assessed along with all of the other
alcohol-related legislation.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES said now that the Fairbanks North Star
Borough has instituted a borough-wide bar closure time, a person
couldn't drive to another part to get alcohol. He said all the
testimony heard was about Anchorage, Mat-Su, and Seward, and
that he is having a problem instituting a statewide law when the
issue is with one area of the state.
Number 2028
LIEUTENANT DUNNAGAN suggested that if a person wanted to leave
Fairbanks or the surrounding area and drive to Nenana only 50
miles away, a person could go there and hang out until 5 a.m.
He said if a bar closed at 2 a.m., a person could be in Nenana
by 3 a.m. There are still those places where it could happen,
he said; for instance, people in Salcha could drive to Delta.
Number 2046
GLENN BRADY, President, Silver Gulch Brewery, stated that
although he doesn't own a dispensary license he feels compelled
to address some issues that have not been brought up. This is a
local option, he said, and needs to be made at that level to be
receptive to the residents of those areas. And regarding the
statements about the fact that Alaska is the "party till 5 in
the morning, mayhem sort of place," Mr. Brady said he was born
and raised during those times. To say that times are the same
now is a vast misrepresentation of the real situation. Alaska
now has some of the most stringent alcohol legislation in the
country. And regarding the enforcement of existing laws, he
said it is already illegal for a licensed establishment to serve
an intoxicated person.
MR. BRADY said either "we" are not enforcing existing laws or
the problem is not the licensed establishment. He added: With
the possibility of the gas line and shift work and so forth,
what does one do? He said it seems that [the bill] is trying to
punish legitimate consumers of alcohol as a result of an
irresponsible few.
Number 2186
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO pointed out that Mr. Brady had said that
possibly the focus should be on enforcing existing laws. He
said with any type of law on the books, more could be achieved
by practicing prevention. This bill, by limiting bar hours,
would do that. There was testimony last week from a man who
said that his bar normally has 200 people still there at 2 a.m.,
and by 4:30 a.m. it is down to 20 or 50 people. He said those
200 people are there at 2 a.m. because they know they have
another three hours to drink. If the bar closed at 2 a.m., [the
bar owner] wouldn't have 200 people there at that time.
Number 2230
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO stated that Representative Ogan and others
are taking a proactive approach trying to prevent tragedies, and
this is the first time he's seen actual data from both the
Wasilla Police Department and the state Department of
Transportation and Public Facilities that make a correlation
between drinking late in the evening and alcohol-related
incidents. Normally, "we" had all figured that it was just
anecdotal information and testimony. He asked Mr. Brady if he
agreed that the legislature should be proactive, in the hope of
preventing some of these tragedies.
MR. BRADY commented that he agrees with the concept; however,
there are laws on the books now that are either not enforceable
or [are flawed]. If this remains a local-option issue, he said,
wouldn't it be reasonable for Wasilla to elect to close its bars
earlier as a result of its population wanted to address the
problem?
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO explained that he didn't mean to imply
that there were unnecessary statutes on the books. What he is
saying is that there are currently laws dealing with DWIs;
however, it comes down to manpower for enforcement. In
addition, he said, [the state] can avoid the cost of prosecution
and the social costs like DWI accidents by practicing
prevention. Regarding Mr. Brady's comments about local control,
he said he would agree to a certain extent; here there is a
situation in which Wasilla has a "carrot" out there for all of
the drinkers that want to continue drinking in Anchorage to get
on the highway and go to Wasilla. He said [Wasilla] is
attracting a crowd out there and impacting the rest of the
community, and even impacting Anchorage by having bar hours
until 5 a.m.; they also are impacting the troopers and other
public safety functions that the state provides. He said [the
state] is feeling the effects of their more liberal bar hours
and have a responsibility to address that if it isn't addressed
locally.
Number 2269
MR. BRADY responded that he has a hard time hearing that it is
an "imposition" on the state troopers, because that is their
function. Again, he returned to the question of whether any
licensed establishments were cited as a result of these
accidents; by existing laws, they could have been cited and
could lose their livelihood as a result of this. He said this
is not the way to address them. What is the problem? It is the
few irresponsible users who will continue to be a problem
regardless of what legislation is on the books.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that public testimony was officially
closed.
Number 2400
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD stated that what is presently being done
isn't working, and if this [legislation] saves lives, he is in
agreement. Wasilla is attracting drunk drivers on the road by
staying open longer. As to the local control issue, he said if
people had not taken a stand nationally, there would still be
segregated schools in the South. He emphasized the need to pass
laws for the greater good.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES followed up on some information he had
requested regarding closing times of package stores.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI stated that nothing had been received, and that
she wasn't sure who had been asked for that information.
MR. FELIX stated that Doug Griffen had been asked.
TAPE 01-37, SIDE B
Number 2450
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO said there is a lot of legislation this
year, and there isn't one "silver bullet"; this needs to be a
comprehensive approach. He mentioned the statistics given to
the committee, and specifically those given by the Wasilla
Police Department, which show that 45 percent of all the DWI
arrests during the second quarter of 1997 and 1998 were of
people who didn't live in the area. And in addition to the
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' figures, a
high percentage of those happened between 12 a.m. and 4 a.m. It
is no longer a guessing [game] as to whether it might be causing
a problem. The numbers show that there is a problem, and it is
[the legislature's] responsibility to take preventive measures.
Number 2399
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO referred to the question about whether the
bars were issued citations. He offered that with three ABC
inspectors for 1,400 licenses statewide, "we" are probably not
citing all of the bars that need to be cited. The whole state
is going to benefit from this, he said, and Anchorage would
benefit from not having the traffic flow out to Wasilla until 5
a.m. He said he is in support of the bill.
Number 2351
CHAIR MURKOWSKI reminded members that the proposed CS had been
adopted previously, and the hours [contained in the proposed CS]
conform to those in the Anchorage area: 3 a.m. closure on the
weekend, and 2:30 a.m. during the week.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT cautioned members on the data presented from
the Wasilla Police Department because it doesn't indicate when
the arrests occurred. And he suggested that when looking at the
time span from June to January [on the committee's handout],
referring to the 19 men and 5 women arrested who were Anchorage
residents, these had occurred while coming home from a fishing
trip. He said it would be clearer if there were convincing
evidence that the arrests occurred between the hours of 3 and 5
a.m.; however, that data isn't contained in the document.
Number 2284
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES stated that in looking at the data and in
hearing the testimony, this sounds like an "Anchorage-area-type
problem," and to impose a law across the state that addresses
one area's situation is problematic. He said the committee saw
a sample of the bar closure hours from a handout entitled
"Cities That Have Adopted Ordinances Under AS 04.16.010 to
Restrict Hours of Sale," and a lot of the big communities did
change their bar hours. He recalled that Mr. Felix testified
that this would help communities because they don't have the
political will to make these changes; however, Anchorage,
Fairbanks, Juneau, Ketchikan, Nome, and the North Slope have
made these changes. He said he doesn't feel that the argument
is that strong and it is a local-control issue.
Number 2249
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES offered Amendment 1, 22-LS0290\A.1, Ford,
3/22/01, which reads [although the amendment was drafted for the
original bill, it was being applied to the proposed CS]:
Page 1, lines 6 - 7:
Delete "alcoholic beverage on premises licensed
under this title between the hours of 2:00 [5:00] a.m.
and 8:00 a.m. each day."
Insert "alcoholic beverage on premises licensed
under this title between the hours of
(1) 3:30 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on
Saturday or Sunday; and
(2) 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on every other
day of the week [EACH DAY]."
Page 1, lines 10 - 11:
Delete "alcoholic beverages on the licensed
premises between the hours of 2:00 [5:00] a.m. and
8:00 a.m. each day."
Insert "alcoholic beverages on the licensed
premises between the hours of
(1) 3:30 [5:00] a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on
Saturday or Sunday; and
(2) 2:00 a.m. and 8:00 a.m. on every other
day of the week [EACH DAY]."
Page 1, line 14:
Delete "2:00"
Insert "(1) 3:30"
Page 2, line 1:
Delete "each day"
Insert "on Saturday or Sunday; and (2) 2:00 a.m.
and 8:00 a.m. on every other day of the week [EACH
DAY]"
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES explained that the bar hours changed in the
Fairbanks North Star Borough because of a drunk driving incident
in which a person was seriously injured and subsequently
committed suicide. Because of this, he said, the bar closure
hours were changed to 2 a.m. on weekdays and 3:30 a.m. on
weekends. [Fairbanks] had a borough-wide vote on this issue,
and the citizens decided that this is what they wanted, and now
this legislation conforms to Anchorage bar hours. He remarked
that the whole state isn't tied to the Municipality of
Anchorage.
Number 2186
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO objected to Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked for clarification that the committee
has previously adopted the Anchorage bar closure hours, and is
now discussing the 10 a.m. bar opening hour.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI responded that the existing statute has the bar
opening hours at 8 a.m., and Anchorage bar opening hours are 10
a.m.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES clarified that Amendment 1 addresses the
closing times, not the opening times.
Number 2121
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he would oppose Amendment 1;
however, if the sponsor would support the bill on the floor, he
said he would be more "friendly to it." He said he would like
to keep the bill as written.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT offered a conceptual amendment to Amendment
1 to change the bar opening hours from 8 a.m. to 10 a.m.
Number 2080
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES responded that he would be amenable to
that.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI explained that the conceptual amendment would
change lines 5, 13, and 23 to 10 a.m. There being no objection
to the conceptual amendment to Amendment 1, it was adopted.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked for a roll call vote on Amendment 1 as
amended. Representatives Meyer, Kott, Rokeberg, Crawford, and
Hayes voted in favor of the amendment; Representatives Murkowski
and Halcro voted in opposition. Therefore, Amendment 1 as
amended was adopted by a vote of 5-2.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that will the adoption of Amendment 1, the
new hours would be from 10 a.m. to 3:30 a.m. on weekends and 10
a.m. to 2 a.m. during the week.
Number 1966
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT clarified that the hours of operation in
Anchorage have been restricted from 2:30 a.m. to 2 a.m.
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER explained that he understood that the bars
in Anchorage close at 2 a.m. during the week anyway, so he
didn't think it would be a problem.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN added that bar operation hours in Wasilla
now are 8 a.m. to 5 a.m.
Number 1830
CHAIR MURKOWSKI commented that everyone has said that this
should be a local option, including the sponsor himself. Even
given that, she explained, sometimes the right thing isn't done.
She said she had come full circle on the bill, and is now
convinced by the data.
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES stated that he is still interested in
getting the package store information, because it is relevant to
this discussion and to the discussion revolving around reducing
the package store hours.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI indicated that Representative Hayes makes a good
point and said the committee will ask for that information from
the ABC Board. She said hopefully Mr. Griffen would be able to
provide that to the House Finance Committee.
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN referred to "Title 10.50.010 (a)," where it
explains package stores hours. This is already in state law, he
pointed out and they aren't open until 5 a.m.
Number 1702
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO made a motion to move the CS for HB 80
[Version 22-LS0290\C, Ford, 3/8/01] as amended from committee
with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note.
There being no objection, CSHB 80(L&C) moved from the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
HB 132-LIQUOR LICENSE APPLICANT CHECK/TRAINING
Number 1665
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 132, "An Act relating to the possession or
distribution of alcohol in a local option area; requiring liquor
license applicants to submit fingerprints for the purpose of
conducting a criminal history background check, and relating to
the use of criminal justice information by the Alcoholic
Beverage Control Board; providing for a review of alcohol server
education courses by the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board every
two years; and providing for an effective date."
Number 1655
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG, speaking as the chair of the House
Judiciary Standing Committee, which had sponsored HB 132 by
request, offered a proposed committee substitute (CS), version
22-LS0380\J, Ford, 3/20/01. There being no objection, the
committee adopted the proposed CS for HB 132 as the working
document.
Number 1610
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that in the proposed CS, the
12 liters of wine [corresponds] to the 24 liters in the current
statute, and the 6 gallons or more of malt beverage
[corresponds] to the 12 gallons in current statute. So, he
said, the only change regarding the bootlegging provisions of
the bill consists of lowering the limit of distilled spirits
from 12 liters to 6 liters. The proposed CS also deletes the
50-air-mile radius [stipulation] from Section 3 of the bill.
Number 1463
DEAN J. GUANELI, Chief Assistant Attorney General, Legal
Services Section-Juneau, Criminal Division, Department of Law,
came forward to testify. He said he had spoken with
Representative Rokeberg's staff, the Alcoholic Beverage Control
(ABC) Board, and the Alaska State Troopers; all groups are in
support of the changes. He provided some brief information
about why [the changes] make sense.
MR. GUANELI explained that the original HB 132 was written
before the state troopers received a large federal grant that
will provide more investigators. Initially, there was an
attempt to figure out some way to get additional information
about bootleggers, he said, and that was where the idea of
liquor stores keeping track of people within a 50-mile radius
originated. There is less need now for that provision, he
commented.
MR. GUANELI reported being told by the ABC Board that package
stores are voluntarily cooperating by providing tips on
potential bootleggers. "We don't want to destroy that
cooperation by imposing what might be an onerous burden on
them," he said; therefore, deleting that provision is
appropriate.
Number 1481
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked what would happen if the grant was not
continued.
MR. GUANELI expressed hope that it would be continued. "If not,
we may be back before the legislature for continued state
funding of that," he said. "We'll just have to see."
Number 1460
MR. GUANELI, regarding the other provisions, said beer and wine
are not the problem in rural Alaska; it's hard liquor. And so
keeping the limits as they exist under current law really makes
the most sense. In looking at the recommendations from the
Criminal Justice Assessment Commission (C-JAC), he said he
thought the specific amounts of the types of beverages reflected
a rough equivalence of a certain amount of alcohol. "In other
words, I sort of figured that ... the amount of alcohol in 12
liters was comparable to 24 liters of wine, and so cutting
everything in half made some sense," he remarked. However, in
calculated it this morning, he found that current law allows a
person to have a lot more alcohol in hard liquor than in beer
and wine, "so cutting the hard liquor in half really does more
to equalize all of those types of alcoholic beverages," he said.
Number 1382
MR. GUANELI testified that the United States Postal Service
(USPS) also favors cutting the amount of hard liquor. Postal
officials have agreed to set up a system to x-ray mail as it
goes through the postal service; x-raying only those things that
are more than one case would equate to x-raying just large
packages, which the USPS doesn't feel would be terribly
effective. The [USPS] felt that it was important to cut that
limit in half so smaller packages could be x-rayed, in an
[attempt] to intercept [those breaking the law].
Number 1321
MR. GUANELI addressed the concern of people being able to have a
certain amount of liquor in the home. If there are two adults
in a home, he explained, each can possess this amount of liquor,
and even cutting the amount of distilled spirits in half, it is
still a fair amount of liquor for a couple; if there are more
adults in the house, it goes up from there, he said. Cutting
the amount in half is not going to burden anybody as a practical
matter, he remarked.
Number 1281
MR. GUANELI concluded by saying that for all of the
[aforementioned] reasons, this is an appropriate change and
"we're" comfortable in supporting the amendments and the bill.
Number 1273
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES asked for clarification that the state
would get five new troopers [paid for] with the federal grant.
Considering the size of the state, he asked if that would be
enough. He stated that while he thinks this bill has merit, he
doesn't think [the state] puts enough troopers out on the
streets to [accomplish the goal here]. He asked for Mr.
Guaneli's opinion.
Number 1246
MR. GUANELI explained that the grant would provide for greater
enforcement. The troopers are planning to focus efforts on
certain areas where liquor is thought to be coming from,
including parts of Anchorage, Bethel, and Kotzebue. "I think
... it's certainly going to be a lot better than what we've had
before, and I think we just have to see where it goes," he said.
Number 1199
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked how the ABC Board feels about
doing a review of alcohol-server education courses every two
years rather than every three years. He stated that it seems a
little undermanned, and he asked if [the ABC Board] agreed with
this level of effort.
Number 1177
MR. GUANELI noted that Mr. Griffin was online to speak to that
question.
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked Mr. Guaneli if he had any comments on
either the fingerprinting or the licensing sections of the bill,
because the committee didn't hear testimony on those during the
last hearing.
MR. GUANELI spoke in support of those sections and said in order
to get national criminal history records, the FBI requires
fingerprints. Furthermore, there are some licensees who live
out of state. Fingerprints aren't wanted from all employees,
just the licensees, the corporate officers, and so forth, he
said. He stated that he thinks fingerprinting is important for
the board's efforts, and he suggested that Mr. Griffin expand
upon that.
Number 1104
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board (ABC
Board), Department of Revenue, via teleconference, said [the
department] thinks it can accommodate the additional review of
alcohol server training; it is an important partnership between
the board and private groups that provide the training. Over
the last couple of years, he said, there have been some
improvements, and the additional work would be manageable within
the budget. Furthermore, providing oversight to the trainers
pays dividends. Mr. Griffin informed the committee that [the
department] is planning to keep better statistics about
violations and the type of training that the person receiving
the violation had.
MR. GRIFFIN turned to the issue of fingerprinting and thanked
Representative Rokeberg and the House Judiciary Standing
Committee for including it in this bill. This is similar to a
measure that passed the House of Representatives last year, but
it didn't make it through the Senate. It is appropriate and
necessary to give licensing agencies such as [the ABC Board] the
ability to access federal data banks. Public Law 92-544 [allows
them to] review fingerprint cards of potential licensees for
purposes of doing a more comprehensive criminal background
check. In doing so, it takes into account that today's society
is more mobile. Furthermore, this would mainly focus on those
who reside within the United States, he explained, but outside
of Alaska. Mr. Griffin mentioned that there had been a couple
of situations in which people applying for a liquor license
would not have shown up on the background check, since it
currently only involves violations in Alaska. If the board had
known of these people's criminal backgrounds, the license would
have been denied; however, the board would not have known this
information based on the current process. Although there is a
nominal charge for a background check through the Department of
Public Safety, the additional cost would be passed on to the
licensee.
MR. GRIFFIN noted that the [ABC] Board uses its discretion in
determining someone's criminal history with regard to giving
that person a license. Therefore, just because someone has a
criminal background doesn't necessarily disqualify him or her.
On the other hand, Mr. Griffin highlighted the importance of the
board's having knowledge of someone who would be licensed to
serve alcoholic beverages in the state. Mr. Griffin said he
feels that the individual selling the alcohol is a big part of
the alcohol abuse problems in Alaska. If the board doesn't have
access to criminal activity that has that occurred outside the
borders of Alaska, the board is hamstrung in trying to do its
job. He pointed out that the ABC Board is made up of volunteers
who meet on their own time and attempt to serve the interests of
the public by making sure that those involved in the alcohol
beverage industry are of good character and respectful of the
law. Mr. Griffin informed the committee that last year this was
widely supported by the Department of Public Safety, and he was
sure it remains supportive. This is one of those common-sense
preventive steps. Furthermore, this legislation sends a message
that the service of alcoholic beverages is taken seriously and
that adequate steps will be taken in order to review the
criminal history that will be licensed in this endeavor. Mr.
Griffin felt that the more hoops a person has to go through for
an alcohol license, the more it impresses upon people that this
a serious business in which care and respect should be taken.
MR. GRIFFIN reiterated that prevention saves money. He
estimated that it costs tens of thousands of dollars for the
state to revoke a license.
Number 0487
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT inquired about the board's process when
reviewing and approving an alcohol-server education course.
MR. GRIFFIN responded that [the ABC Board] reviews the materials
provided and look to see if the 16 specific items are covered.
He said there is a "canned" nationwide course that is customized
to address those things that are different about Alaska state
law. He added that the course needs to be of an appropriate
duration and require a test, and the people who are instructing
need to be knowledgeable.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Griffin, when reviewing those
courses in the past, whether he had made suggestions or changes
to improve them, or whether [the courses] have been inline with
the established regulations and conditions.
Number 0408
MR. GRIFFIN said the only major thing that [the ABC Board] talks
to them about is the customization, making sure that the things
unique to Alaska state law are covered. Mainly, he said, the
canned course is good and covers how to deal with a customer,
how to diplomatically cut someone off, and so forth, which are
usually generic.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how many groups provide the education
training course.
MR. GRIFFIN replied that at this time there are basically three
major groups: the Techniques of Alcohol Management (TAM)
course, which is most widely available and offered through the
Cabaret Hotel Restaurant & Retailers Association (CHARR); the
so-called "Bar Code," which is offered through the Alaska Hotel
and Motel [Association] (AHMA) and the Anchorage Restaurant and
Beverage Association (ARBA); and "Tips Training," which is
typically provided in-house by a large chain, for example.
Number 0280
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how long it takes Mr. Griffin to
review one of these courses.
MR. GRIFFIN said if it is a new course, like Bar Code, it takes
three days to go through, and there is discussion back and
forth; then for renewal, it would take one to two days per
course.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Griffin to tell the committee
how a limited liability [company] (LLC) can be fingerprinted.
MR. GRIFFIN explained that regulating LLCs is a challenge. He
said [the ABC Board] tries to focus on the components of the
LLC, because an LLC can consist of a cluster of corporations and
there is a lot of dialogue back and forth trying to find out who
the key players are within the LLC. Once determined, the board
wants to make sure its "net" is cast wide enough to protect the
public interest. Obviously, there can be LLCs that have
hundreds of people, so some detective work has to be done to
find out who really has the authority. Sometimes six or eight
people would be fingerprinted, he remarked, if they were key to
the alcohol-service aspect of the bill.
TAPE 01-38, SIDE A
Number 0038
MR. NORRIS said alcohol is the biggest problem out in Bush
Alaska. One of his troopers working on the Kotzebue [River]
told him that when a "stream" of alcohol gets into the
community, it turns into a river of family assault, suicides,
DWIs, motor vehicle accidents, and homicides. He is in favor of
the bill as it is.
MR. NORRIS referred to the five [new state] troopers that will
be paid for from the federal grant. He said it is an attempt to
be proactive because the current levels just allow [the state]
to react to crime.
Number 0174
BLAIR McCUNE, Deputy Director, Public Defender Agency,
Department of Administration, via teleconference, said he thinks
it is a good idea and he agreed with Mr. Guaneli when he said
the bootlegging problems are mostly with hard liquor, rather
than wine or beer. He stated that he redid the fiscal note and
made a solid estimate of the types and amounts of cases that
have to be covered, taking into account the $1.4 million grant
that the Department of Law and the Department of Public Safety
will be receiving.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. McCune if he could ask for
part of that grant to help out. He also asked how bootleggers
would qualify for a public defender.
MR. McCUNE responded that he hadn't asked Mr. Guaneli directly
about public defender services [paid for] through the federal
appropriation. In his past experience with federal law and
federal grants, they restrict recipients to law enforcement and
prosecutors, more than public defenders; he said he would ask,
but [public defenders] don't normally get "cut in" on federal
funding because of the involvement of federal laws.
Number 0403
MR. McCUNE, addressing the question of bootleggers affording a
private attorney, said some can, but the majority can't. In his
experience as a public defender in Bethel, the liquor isn't
brought in with a container, it is brought in with "knapsacks
and boxes," and the people bringing it in don't have a lot of
money. He said he didn't know of any "bootlegging kingpins."
Certainly, the misery that it causes is spread around; the
people who do the bootlegging are not wealthy people and don't
have the means to hire an attorney.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said he believes that it is entirely
unfair for this legislation to be "saddled" with the results of
a $1.4 million grant to the Department of Public Safety; the
same conditions apply to the Department of Corrections. He
suggested that Mr. McCune "plead" with the administration to get
some funding because the fiscal notes will "kill" the bill. If
the legal fees can't be received in-kind from a bootlegger, it
is going to make it tough to pass this legislation, he remarked.
Number 0598
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES referred to Section 3, and asked what
criteria would exclude someone from getting a liquor license.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG responded that [the ABC Board] is
looking for a criminal charge in another state.
MR. GRIFFIN replied that [the board] is looking at alcohol-
related things; someone who has a string of DWIs wouldn't be a
good candidate to have a liquor license, or someone who has been
convicted of assault within the last five years, or someone who
has been convicted on a weapons charge, and so forth. [Crimes
that occurred] within the past ten years would be of particular
importance. He gave an example of a man who was applying for a
liquor license in Alaska, and only because he was involved as an
informant for the Anchorage Police Department did the
information surface: he had been convicted of kidnapping,
selling alcohol without a license, and one other alcohol-related
charge in California within the last five years. He said this
was found out because [the Anchorage Police Department] did a
background check before employing him. If he had gone through
the normal Alaska-only background check, this wouldn't have been
known.
Number 0801
MR. GRIFFIN, responding to a question about whether someone who
had served time for a crime and was rehabilitated would be
denied a liquor license, stated that these cases are handled
case-by-case; it is one of the more important things that the
ABC Board does. It is done in executive session with the
person, he said, unless the person doesn't have problem talking
about his or her criminal background in a public session. [The
ABC Board] takes into account a lot of factors, but if the
charge is serious enough, there is a good chance that the board
would deny a liquor license for a person even after being
convicted and serving his or her time.
MR. GRIFFIN explained that a liquor license is viewed as a
privilege, and the board has to take into account the ability of
someone to be responsible. [The ABC Board] has to keep the
public's safety in mind. He equated it to a person who gets
picked up for his or her third or fourth DWI and gets his or her
license revoked; he said even after the time has been served,
that person still is not going to be issued a license for 10 to
20 years. [Package-store owners] are dispensers of a legal
drug, and [the board] wants to take the greatest care to ensure
that those owners have the highest character and regard for the
law.
Number 0989
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT made a motion to move the CS for HB 132[22-
LS0380\J, Ford, 3/20/01] out of committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal notes. There being no
objection, CSHB 132(L&C) was moved from the House Labor and
Commerce Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
5:15 p.m.
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